"I've Been in Worse Situations"

Time Magazine
Sunday, Sep. 12, 2004
"I've Been in Worse Situations"
TIME talks with John Kerry about the upcoming presidential election
By KAREN TUMULTY

In his first wide-ranging interview with a national news organization in more than a month, John Kerry sat down with TIME's national political correspondent Karen Tumulty last week as his campaign plane flew between a health-care forum in St. Louis, Mo., and a rally in Allentown, Pa. With a guitar case resting nearby and his daughter Alexandra, 31, popping in at one point, the challenger appeared very focused as he reflected on what lies ahead in the final seven weeks of the campaign—and, if he manages to pull off a come-from-behind victory, the four years after that.

TIME
This past month has been pretty brutal for you, between the Swift Boat ads, the Republican Convention and the Vice President saying if you get elected, it would invite another terrorist attack. Have you come to any new conclusions about whom you're running against and what you have to do to win?

KERRY
I think the President's unwillingness to walk away from those comments makes it clear that he and the Vice President will say anything and do anything to get elected and to hold on to power. It was a shameful and outrageous effort.

But you know, I've been in worse situations in my life. The attacks don't attack me as much as they attack Americans and America. They're trying to distract people from the real issues that matter.

America is not as safe as we ought to be after 9/11. We can do a better job at homeland security. I can fight a more effective war on terror. The standard of living for the average American has gone down. People's incomes have dropped. Five million Americans have lost their health insurance. The deficit is the largest it's been in the history of this country. They're taking money from Social Security and transferring it to the wealthiest people in America to drive us into debt. They're shredding alliances around the world with people we have traditionally been able to rely on. That's what bothers me.

TIME
What do you need to do to make this race about what you want it to be about?

KERRY
Draw the contrast; be crystal clear about it. That's what I've been doing every day. George Bush has made the wrong choices for America. He's leading the country in the wrong direction. John Edwards and I have better choices. We have a health-care plan for all Americans. We're going to stop subsidizing jobs that go overseas and create jobs here in America. We're going to fund education and not leave millions of children behind every day. The trail of broken promises and reversed decisions of this Administration is unlike any I have ever seen at any time that I have been in public life, and I'm going to draw that picture as clear as a bell.

TIME
Speaking of clarity, a number of your allies have said that you haven't drawn a clear contrast between yourself and President Bush on Iraq.

KERRY
The contrast could not be clearer. They spent a lot of money trying to confuse people, but I have been consistent. I would not have taken the country into war the way he did. I would not have put young Americans in harm's way without a plan to win the peace. I would not have interrupted as abruptly the effort to build alliances with other countries. I would not have turned my back on the international community. And Americans are paying a $200 billion cost today because this President rushed to war.

TIME
Is the President being as aggressive as he should be in dealing with insurgent strongholds in Iraq?

KERRY
At this moment in time, I'm not sitting with the generals in front of me for the full briefing. I'm not going to comment on that right now. That is up to the President. It's his decision to make. But I will tell you this, that we've gone backward in Iraq, and we've gone backward on the war on terror. I'm not President until Jan. 20, if America elects me. I don't know what I'll find in Iraq.

But I'll tell you this: I will pursue a far more aggressive, proactive statesmanship role to bring countries to our side in an effort in which they have an interest. Ninety percent of the casualties and costs are being borne by Americans. That's inexcusable.

I believe very deeply that it takes a new President, a new credibility, a fresh start, to change the whole equation in Iraq. I will get countries involved in ways that the President doesn't have them involved today, and I will get our troops home.

TIME
How? Diplomats say that it is not in our allies' political interest—

KERRY
George Bush has made it not in their interest today. There are all sorts of options with respect to Shi'ites, Sunnis and Kurds in the region that this Administration is not exploring. They have failed in their diplomacy utterly. In fact, they have made it easy for countries to say no, because of their arrogance, because of the way the President chose to go to war.

TIME
As President, who would be the first person you would phone?

KERRY
I'm not going to say one, two, three. I will tell you that I have 20 years of experience on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. I have personal relationships with leaders around the world. I will not cede our security to any other country. I won't cede our security to any institution, but I know how to reach out to countries and leaders and build bipartisan-support structures necessary to strengthen the country.

TIME
You can't be more specific?

KERRY
I know exactly what I'm going to do, but I'm not the President today. I've already laid out the international conference, the shared responsibilities between European and Arab countries, the more rapid training of Iraqi police and military. I think it's almost pathetic the rate at which we have done that. They [the Bush Administration]are hardly behaving like we're truly a country at war. It's pathetic that they left ammunition dumps and nuclear facilities unprotected.

They disbanded the Iraqi military. They didn't protect the borders. It's one of the most catastrophic jobs of management that I've ever seen.

TIME
Will you be more specific about timetables for getting troops out?

KERRY
I have said that I have a goal to be able to bring our troops out of there within my first term, and I hope to be able to bring out some troops within the first year. But what's important here is that I can fight a more effective war on terror. George Bush diverted the focus from Afghanistan. The 9/11 commission makes it clear that Saddam Hussein had nothing to do with 9/11, nothing to do with al-Qaeda. The war was against al-Qaeda and for getting justice for 9/11. George Bush diverted attention from that. And we're spending $200 billion over there [in Iraq] now that could have gone to schools in America, could have gone to after-school programs, could have gone to health care, could have gone to infrastructure.

TIME
Do you think President Bush shirked his duties during the Vietnam era?

KERRY
I'm focused on the issues of now and today. The White House can answer questions they need to answer. I've answered all the questions I'll answer.

TIME
How would you go about winning the war of ideas in the Middle East?

KERRY
What I intend to do is to put in play the economic power, the values and principles, the public diplomacy, so we're isolating the radical Islamic extremists and not having the radical extremists isolate the United States. It means bringing religious leaders together, including moderate mullahs, clerics, imams—pulling the world together in a dialogue about who these extremists really are and how they are hijacking the legitimacy of Islam itself. That takes leadership, and that leadership has not been put on the table.

You have almost 60% of the populations of Egypt and Saudi Arabia under 30, and 50% under 18. We have to engage in a way that offers them some alternative to the radical madrasahs that are educating them to hate and to go out and strap explosives around themselves.

They [the Bush Administration] haven't even engaged in a legitimate effort to try to really transform the ability of Israel to find a legitimate entity to negotiate with. The only thing they do is rattle the saber.

TIME
If I could get back to politics—

KERRY
I don't talk politics.

TIME
People's views of the strength of your leadership have declined in the past few weeks. Is this in part because you were slow in responding to the Swift Boat ads? Do you wish you had been more aggressive?

KERRY
No, I think we did absolutely fine, and I think we are doing absolutely fine. I think this is a close race, and it's going to be a close race. I think we are doing extraordinarily well. If anybody had told me we'd be points apart from the sitting President of the United States, well, would you have believed them?

I feel very confident in where we are and confident about the direction of this race. And the American people are beginning to listen and listen carefully.

TIME
What did you think of the speech of your Democratic colleague Zell Miller at the Republican Convention?

KERRY
Everybody has the right to give a speech. I didn't see it, and I haven't read it. I didn't see one minute of the convention.

TIME
Our latest poll indicates that terrorism has become the No. 1 issue for voters.

KERRY
I will fight a more effective war on terror, and over the next weeks the American people will see the phoniness of the Bush efforts.

They haven't done port security; they're cutting cops; they haven't taken assault weapons off the streets. Firehouses are opened in Iraq; they're shut in the United States. Port security: 95% of our containers come in, and they are uninspected.

The fact is that these guys talk tough, but they haven't done what is necessary to make America as safe as it can be. There have been more terrorist incidents around the world in the last months than any time in recent history. Whole parts of Iraq are under the control of terrorists, and they never were. Afghanistan is exporting drugs like opium like never before, and whole parts of the country are under the control of the Taliban and terrorists again.

We're in a stronger place than I've been in any campaign I've ever run before. You looked at the polls; there wasn't one of you who said I'd be the nominee. Well, I'm going to win this race because Americans want better leadership.

As we get into those cold days of October and people's juices begin to flow and they measure us one to one, I'm confident that my record of fighting for this country since I was a young man is going to eclipse the disastrous choices that have been made by George Bush.

TIME
One question that has left the President at a loss for words is whether he has had regrets. Do you?

KERRY
I've made mistakes, and I've done things that I regret, sure. I regret voting for Justice Scalia. I regret that any of us put faith in what the President said about how he would take America to war.

TIME
Are you surprised at the bounce Bush got out of his convention?

KERRY
I don't know what you're talking about in terms of the Bush bounce. This is a very close race, and I'm not somebody that runs around worried about polls. If I did, I wouldn't have gotten up last December. Polls don't mean anything to me right now.

I feel really good. We're on an even playing field, and our folks are stoked. All over the country we've got an enormous amount of energy, people are organizing, and I just think the choice is very clear. The Supreme Court of the United States is at stake. After-school programs are at stake. Health care is at stake. Social Security is at stake.

Jobs are at stake. The character of our country is at stake—whether we're going to have people who traffic in fear instead of real solutions.

TIME
It sounds as if you think the Bush strategy is based on scaring the country.

KERRY
I think they are trying to do everything possible to divert attention from the real issues in front of the country, and their entire strategy for six months has been distorting my record and attacking me because they don't have a record to run on.